The Hidden Bottleneck to Every Pastor’s Potential | Ep 27

Most pastors don’t realize what’s actually holding them back.

It’s not vision.
It’s not effort.
And it’s not a lack of opportunity.

It’s how they’re leading one of the most important roles around them.

In this conversation, Mark, Jesse, and Scott unpack the hidden leadership dynamic that keeps admins stuck in task mode—and quietly limits a pastor’s ability to grow, lead, and scale.

This isn’t about getting more help.
It’s about unlocking the help you already have.

Inside:
- Why admins stay stuck in execution mode
- The difference between dumping and true delegation
- How context creates anticipation and ownership
- Why trust, chemistry, and development matter more than skill
- The mindset shift that frees you to do what only you can do

If you want your church to grow, your leadership has to multiply.
And that starts with how you lead this role.

Timestamps:
00:40 The growth challenge pastors are facing
01:20 Why this role feels awkward for most leaders
02:17 The real key: context unlocks everything
03:14 Why pastors give up after a bad experience
05:59 Dumping vs. delegating
06:47 How to train someone to think like you
08:05 Why pastors undervalue this role
09:39 What a strategic partner actually does
10:56 Hiring mistake: chemistry matters
12:07 Trust, access, and confidentiality
14:09 When you need a “translator” on your team
15:35 What happens when this finally clicks
17:13 You can’t skip the process
18:19 Creating shared wins and real ownership
21:06 The hidden bottleneck to your potential

If you have a question or topic you’d like us to tee up on a future episode, email us at hey@readysetgrowchurch.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

Hey Pastor, if you're facing growth challenges right now, you're trying to figure out how to scale, how to align your staff, and really how to get after the work that God's called you to do in that community, we would love to come alongside you. And I want you to know we just opened up a brand new mastermind specifically for churches under 500. And if that's interesting to you, go to ready setgrow.church to find out more information and see if this is a fit for your journey right now. Hi, my friends. Welcome back to the Breaking 1000 podcast. Uh, I am your host, Mark Brewer, and back by Popular Demand, Jesse Anderson. Hey Kitty, good to be back. We really are glad you're back. And uh, I've got Scott Wilson here with us as well. Uh we had previously done an episode about how to unlock the power of uh your strategic partner, otherwise known as uh your assistant, your administrative assistant. Yep. But one of the things that we didn't do, we we focused a lot on the frame framework, but what we didn't do is talk about how to personalize that journey for the lead pastor, the visionary leader. And we'd like to do that today because it is a little bit different on this side to begin to navigate through bringing this person to a place where they are a partner for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

I think it's very important on this conversation because you know how many pastors I talk to who some of them they go, I had a bad experience and I didn't know how to handle it. And so I just don't even need one. I'm gonna do everything. Then secondly, it's be it's people like I have one, I don't even know what to do with them. I mean, it's just awkward so for so many. And I think this is a big deal because once you get this right, it's like, how did I ever live without this?

SPEAKER_04 1:54

Yeah. I think it's really important to recap a little bit of what we talked about. You have uh an executive pastor or a leadership team or an associate pastor, whatever you have, who's helping you to do the ministry of the organization. Right. What we're talking about when we say strategic partner is somebody who's helping you. What is on your plate? And we really got to unlock our thinking around this because oftentimes, for whatever reason, uh pastors just are like, I don't know how to leverage what's there. I hope and I wish and uh man, I I really I guess I would just hope that you could help me more. I don't know how to help you. The suggestions you're giving are not helping me. So how do I unlock this? And what we said in the the other episode is really that context is really what helps to unlock that superpower. So it's information. It's information. And if there's a greater partnership and communication, then the assistant is able to go, now hang on a second. I know this is important to you. So do you want to be doing this? And there is, um, we also just introduced the idea of you don't have to change things automatically right now. I think a frame that's very safe is pastor, leader with your assistant, can we do a little experiment and evaluate for 30 days? Can we follow a regular rhythm of sharing more context, having more conversation, and what can that unlock? But I think it is helpful in this episode to talk about how does that feel? What are some of the working assumptions that we have to challenge?

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

Because for a leader, sometimes they just think, I'm telling you, I hear what you're saying, but my assistant can't do this. I've talked to I don't know how many assistants and how many different contexts who go, I know I can help more. And uh, I'm just in a place where I'm just doing tasks because that's all I'm given context for.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Well, the reason why I'm laughing is because one of the coolest, funniest stories I ever heard from John Maxwell and Linda Eggers, who was his assistant for it still is, I mean forever. And Linda is like for most pastors when they hear John talk about Linda, it's just like, golly, if I had that. So what Linda told me one time, she goes, I was sitting, I was sitting with this pastor one time, and he goes, I'd give anything if I had a Linda, if I had a Linda, I could do this, I could do great things if I had a Linda. You know, I just my assistant isn't like you. Yep. And she goes, Well, you know what's interesting is she's probably talking to somebody right now and saying, if I had a John, if I just had a John Maxwell, if I had somebody who knew how to delegate, if I had somebody who knew how to lead with me and partner with me, and he goes, Well, that might be true.

SPEAKER_05 4:25

So it is it is really then uh a it really is then an understanding that this can be framed, uh, this can be developed. It's not necessarily that you walk into this and both of you are intuitive and you build it.

SPEAKER_04 4:39

That's right. It is interesting from the leader side. I I I guess I will just say I'll empathize with this because we think this sounds like more work. I don't know how much context to give. They're not my associate or executive pastor, and I'm just not convinced based on what I've seen that they're going to be able to bring this. And uh and there's also maybe there's something in your head which is I don't want to burden them with more. Oh, that's what I struggled with the whole time. I just want them to do this and just like, you know, I don't want to do this or that or the other. But there's so much more. So much more is possible if you unlock them.

SPEAKER_05 5:16

But it does, it does take some amount of an extended trust to try on this because I think especially um at the leader, lead pastor role, you're ask you're asking for someone to trust your mind and your heart and your thoughts in. You're wondering, can they carry that? Because sometimes that's where the big bucks is, is can they carry the load of this type of information? And I know you had to navigate through that and you've had a number of administrative assistants over the years. Maybe you could use that as a springboard to talk about some of your experiences around that.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Well, I think first of all, when you're just saying, I don't want, I don't know, I don't want to, you know, just pour all this stuff on them that I could do and all this. Listen, there is a difference between dumping and delegating. And so I am in total agreement that if you don't learn how to set your assistant up as a strategic partner, then all you're doing is saying, this is stuff I don't want to do, and you dump it on them. Yeah. Okay. So, or hey, this is whatever it is. Dumping is not a good thing. Right. So I think good, good in your heart, Pastor, that you're saying, I just don't want to overload them and dump them, dump on them. Okay, don't dump, delegate. Delegate's different. Delegation is you're looking at them in their strengths that they can help you with. Yes. You're so you're you have meetings of conversations. Uh, part of delegation is also a process of learning with each other that says, hey, let me teach you how to write like me so you can write in my voice. Yeah. And we're talking. So then I'm gonna write it and discuss with you what I wrote, why I wrote, how I wrote. Yeah. And then you're learning. Then the next time, how about you write? Yep. And then let me give you feedback on how you wrote and say, hey, I love how you did here. Let me tell you why I would change this, how I would change this, dah dah dah. Yep. And then it we'd keep doing that until you got it, and I'm going, like, man, that's great. Let's go. But that what we try to do is just say, I wish you could write for me, but you don't know how to write like me.

SPEAKER_05 7:19

Yeah. So then I'm not gonna get you to write for you.

SPEAKER_02 7:22

I'm not gonna do it, or I'm gonna dump on it and say, you can't do it.

SPEAKER_05 7:25

And so what I am hearing is initially, there might be a little bit more time investment in kind of that no man's land. 100%. But within a pretty quick timeline, you're now going to be able to capture. You're empowering them.

SPEAKER_02 7:42

So it's gonna move from I don't have time for all that interaction. Yeah. Well, yeah. But if you do take the time here, then you've gotten all this time on the other side.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

I think it's important to have a mindset shift here about this role. Because let's take this if you had a ministry leader that you were just simply being reactive to and dumping stuff and they were only doing what you said. I don't think a lot of pastors would be happy with a ministry leader doing that. What do they want them to do? They want them thinking like the pastor thinks. They want them proactively doing stuff that the pastor's like, I didn't even see that. They're in the weeds of it. But there's a mindset shift that's important, which is a lot of pastors aren't thinking about their assistance in that way. Yeah. And so they're missing it. It also, maybe this is strong language, it tends to be a sort of developmental dead end for assistance. The assistant is not always the one who's going to a conference, going through something like the admin challenge curriculum, having opportunities to connect with other admins. So they're just in a pool where this is like, this is all you think, this is all you can get. And you're like, listen, I'm fine. I don't need any more, just do the basic things that I need. So you're not thinking, how do I stretch them? How do I develop them? How do I get more? Yeah. But if we were to think of them as a ministry partner in a different way, totally different game change. Like again, you would never just with a ministry leader go, I'm comfortable with me just giving you check boxes and you doing the work. But I think we undervalue what this role can be for you as the pastor. And not just to help you and not just to take, you know, some burden off of you, but to free you up for the things that you can only do. You know what my favorite executive assistant job description is? Is my job is to serve and support my leader and clear the path so that they can do what only they can do. 100%. So, how do we get more from the assistant so we can get more from you as the pastor as a personality? It's the greatest thing that does.

SPEAKER_02 9:38

It's the greatest thing in the whole world to be able to disciple, develop, to help, to expand, to say you're not just uh this isn't a bad thing to be a secretary, but you're not just somebody who's typing things up for me or filing things for me or setting up appointments for me. I want you to be a strategic partner with me that you know, like the people that I know, I want to tell you, hey, let me tell you who this person is, yeah, why they're important, yeah, how this relationship, this is what I need to do in this relationship. Yep. So that they're learning when that person calls, they say, Hey, Pastor So-and-so, it how are you doing? How's your how's your family? Hey, uh, their assistant. They're getting to know the assistant. I want you to anticipate how can I build, how can you build a relationship with that assistant? Yeah, so that when I'm saying I need to do this, you're calling and they go, Okay, this is Britney. I'm gonna handle that. I mean, you get it? That's right.

SPEAKER_05 10:29

That's powerful. What were some of the challenges? So if you could look back, I I'm seeing all the faces of your administrative assistants over the years, and and then you as a person and as a leader, were there some specific challenges or hurdles you had to personally get over in order to move into this realm of really empowering uh well, first of all, the in the interviewing process, let me just start back there because it's like, how do you even get the right person?

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Yeah. Because anytime it didn't work for me, it was really that I thought, I just need somebody to work with me. I don't know that I really have to like them. Well, that doesn't even, or it doesn't work. That's right. I mean, there's too much interaction there. It's a good call out. In other words, I if if if I like you but you're not you're underperforming or it's not working right, I at least like you and I want to work with you to do it. That's right. If if I don't like you and you're even doing it perfect, I'm still going, well, they're doing the job, but man, they just get on my new. And you're gonna start avoiding it. It's not gonna work. Yeah, and so it has to, when you're talking about competency and character, you also have got to talk about chemistry. That's right. So I think probably the biggest places I missed it was chemistry didn't matter. And it does matter a lot. Secondly, on the interview, let me just say this as a warning, because sometimes people go, you know, I we're not talking about this, but I think it's important. It's cliche, but it's the whole deal of, oh, did he have an affair with his assistant? Okay, this type of deal. If it's a female and it's a male pastor or there's a relationship like this, and I I know this is like that's not in our deal here. Well, I want to put it there because I never interviewed an assistant who was a female ever that Jenny wasn't involved. That's my wife. She is always involved in that. Yes. I also, even if it is my assistant, we have protocol of how we're meeting together, how that works, windows on the doors, number these type of deals. Yep. And so it has to be that they see themselves as serving not just me, but they're serving me and Jenny. That's right. They're serving us in a relationship. Doesn't mean, and by the way, you can have a strategic partner in ministry. Some pastors even have, and I know we're kind of getting up there, but they might have that where they also have a personal assistant who's helping in life because life is just crazy. So you can have different things. You've got to be clear on the rule. That's right. But but here's here's where I think this becomes uh very important is that there has to be a relationship there with chemistry, but they also have the competency. But the character issue is also about confidentiality.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

I have to trust because uh here's how I functioned. I wanted to have such a high trust with that person and build that over time. They see every email, they'll they'll even read every email before I read it and kind of organize what I needed to see and what I needed to do. I even had it where they were on my phone texting for me different things. And so I've got to have a life where there's a trust in there where I can even trust at a level of what can they go home and talk to their spouse about? What can they not? And there has to be a relational understanding there on that. That is a huge deal. So I don't know if if I skipped over on that, but in the relationship, those are very important up front. My mistakes, though, were always usually in the chemistry deal.

SPEAKER_04 13:43

Yeah. What I do think is important to your question, Mark, is I hear an openness and a willingness that you saw it as a dynamic role that we want to optimize. Yes. And I think that's really important. And again, I just don't think that we often have that mindset for whatever reason. I'm not even going to list the reasons because it might be contextual to you, but to have an open-mindedness, there is more if we continue to go. We mentioned this in the other episode, but I think it's helpful to bring back here. Maybe you're at such a place, you're such a high visionary leader, you have a more reactive task-based admin, and you're just scared about, man, I think the divide is really far here. How do we do this? One of my favorite recommendations is to say, bring in that right-hand person, your associate pastor, executive pastor. So rather than going, okay, I'm willing to meet weekly with my assistant and talk through everything, but there's a divide here. Maybe bring in your exec pastor who can be a translator and can hear, okay, I've even been in situations like this where I've just paused and gone, okay, so hang on a second. Real quick, that's the context behind this. We'll catch up after this, and I'll just make sure that just make a note about this and cool. Got it? Okay, keep going, Pastor. Because otherwise, sometimes there's a disconnect. You're going and going and going and they're hang on a second. So can you go back and you're just like, this is what I signed up for? I got other things to do.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

I like that.

SPEAKER_04 14:59

Sometimes you need a translator to be in the middle to be able to help. Yep. If you will stay open-minded, realize it more as possible. Um, and I also mentioned this in the other episode, but to what you said about hiring. Sometimes you're gonna do everything you know to do. You're gonna be open-handed, they're gonna go, and you're gonna go, I still don't have the right person. That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 15:16

It is okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

I'm not saying that they're the person. If you just do everything right, that they'll be great. You gotta find the right person.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

Throw out the concept that you need the person. That's exactly right. So it's not like, hey, I've already tried two people, it didn't work, so forget the whole assistant. No, you have to keep it. It's it's vital. I'm telling you right now, yeah. You will not be the lead pastor God wants you to be if you do not have a strategic partner, not just about an executive or staff who's doing these things, but someone who's helping you do what you do. That's right. So that you can be set up. They they I'm telling you, the when when I have that relationship, when when Britney, who was right there next to me and we're in that zone, she's anticipating what I need. That's right. She's doing things because she's not just learned how to listen to what I'm delegating, she knows how to anticipate and because she knows the why of what I'm doing. That's right. This is how he thinks, this is how he functions, this is why we're doing, this is why this is important. Yeah, and she's able to anticipate. I cannot tell you how many times her ministry has gone before me. I'll go to somewhere and they'll go, Oh my gosh, that Brittany, she is amazing. She sets you up, she represents you so well. The standard, the value, the way people see me many times is through that interaction and and what's going on there.

SPEAKER_04 16:39

It's huge. And I love what you're saying. It's a great example of how do we clear the path of non-essential tasks and responsibilities so that you can do what only you can do. You can do more and better ministry that God has called you to do. We've just got to wrap our heads around that. More is possible. You just got to be willing to go after it.

SPEAKER_05 16:57

So, in in order to tie this up today, anything else that you feel like is really important from either one of you to help our leaders understand how powerful this can be in what God has asked them to do.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

Can't skip the process.

SPEAKER_05 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:14

I think that's so big, is that so many people look at somebody who has this, like right now, like that guy saying, Man, I wish I had a Linda. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

Do you think that just happened? Yeah. Do you think that was just it doesn't boom? I got Linda in the way it is. How could that even be? We we would never see that and think that in reality, but we we think that's how it should happen here. Yeah. You should know what I need and what I without me telling you. You should know you it relationships have to be built, trust has to be built, training has to be done. And I love how you said it may not be you need a translator, you might need that executive to come in and say, Hey, let me tell you what he's saying. Yeah, let me share with you what what he's the how to handle this when he's doing that, yeah. Interpret it. Yeah. But the process is so worth the the the doing. Yeah. If you get that result where you find that person, value them, thank them, give them feedback uh where they can know how to do better. Let me tell you something. Your assistant or that that strategic partner, I find when you have that right, they want to hear they did good and they want to know how to do better. Yes, and they want to be valued. Where every time I had a win, I would go in and go, guess what we did today?

SPEAKER_05 18:35

Yes. Shared win is what I just heard you say. Shared win.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Let me tell you what we did today. Come on. We just won big time. I'm always using it as it wasn't I did this, we did this. Yeah. And and doing that causes them to feel like, golly, I love this. Yeah. I valued uh for me. I did have I had two male assistants over 35 years. Great, nothing wrong. It was good. Yep. And so it would be the same thing. And the others were females, and I had probably 10 others like that. Three, I would say I got there. Yeah. Okay. And those were the longest. Okay. That's good. So the but I'm saying this: I always knew their spouse, valued their spouse, included their spouse. Yeah. I always knew their kids' names. When the kids came in to see whoever that person was, I knew them by name, called them in my office, I'd give them treats or or hang out with them, or I have a marker board in my office and say, hey, let's let's let me see you write your name. I mean, what depending on their age, we would go to their sporting games, you know, their sporting events. Yeah. What I'm saying is, when it gets right, you value them not just as an asset, but as a vital person that you care about in your life. Your wife cares about in your life.

SPEAKER_05 19:53

It wasn't just uh they were in a desk, they were in your world and you were in the world. That's really good. That's right. Some final words from you on this.

SPEAKER_04 20:00

I would just say to any pastor or leader, more is possible if you're willing to open up. I do want you to hear that I don't think it's all on you, but you may have to be willing to invest, whether that is sharing more context, whether that is something. I mean, what we have done with the admin challenge is we've created something that is going to empower your assistant. You don't have to do the work, but you do have to be open-handed and willing to experiment and evaluate. But we really want to give this to assistants to be able to, my my whole thing in that is not to say, hey, I know your leader's hard and I know this and they need to do all this. It's let me talk to you, assistant. Here are the things that you need to do. Here's how you talk to your leader, here's the tools that you need. And it really helps. And so, leader, if you are willing to be open-handed, if you are willing to invest, if you're willing to raise your imagination of what could be, I think you're going to find a different reality than you ever thought possible.

SPEAKER_02 20:50

So, how do they get into the admin challenge?

SPEAKER_04 20:52

They can go to adminchallenge.com. Everything's there. Leaders, even if you're interested in this, we actually have a freebie session pack with a couple of mini sessions you can check out.

SPEAKER_02 21:02

Where is it?

SPEAKER_04 21:02

Adminchallenge.com.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Okay, so Pastor, if you're listening right now, this is the challenge I give you. Number one, you are the lid lead pastor. Yeah. Or exact whoever's listening to this, if you have a strategic partner and you want that, you're the lid to what it could be. That's right. Okay. In other words, if you're limiting it to you're my secretary or you're my go-do person, uh, you're not going to be my strategic partner. They can never be that, even if they had the potential to be. That's right. You're the lid. But secondly, let's say you cast that vision, how will they live up to the expectation you have of what you wanted to be? Is to get into this. Yeah. Let me tell you, Pastor, right now, the best gift you could give, not only to your executive assistant, but to yourself, is to get in the admin challenge. I remember, you know, where everything I'm talking about, you you may even look at me and go, like, golly, I think he kind of gets. I think you're like going, dude, he kind of gets the deal. You know why I got it? Is because I go back to John Maxwell. And Linda Eggers, here's how I know is because 30 years ago, John Maxwell put out a teaching. It was in a box with these tapes in there like this. There were six tapes. It was enjoy life, but it was an it was an outside, I mean, it was not just his monthly deal. It was a part of it. It was on the the lead pastor and his executive assistant. Wow. Six tapes. I got it, Brittany got it, and we walked through it together. Incredible. That's how we learned. Incredible. I didn't even know what it could be. She didn't know what it could be. And together we experienced, oh my God, this could be amazing. And it was. That's so cool. So, Pastor, I'm challenging you right now. You cast the vision. Yeah. And then invite them into the admin challenge and you interact with it. Yeah. And you will have such an incredible experience of how your ministry could go to another level through this.

SPEAKER_05 22:53

So good. Well, hey, thanks for coming back. We're going to have to keep creating opportunities for you to come back and hang up with us. Thanks, Pastor, for your perspective on this. And hey, if you have uh something that you would like us to tee up on one of these podcasts, just shoot us an email at hey, that's H-E-Y at ready setgrow dot church, and we'll look forward to seeing you soon.